The people against the landswap are wealthy elitists with selfish objectives (blocking Valley Railroad from operating near their property and keeping Goodspeed in East Haddam). If you truly cared about the environment you would do something to close down your polluting marinas in Essex. Then, however, you would have no place to keep your yachts. You are not from Haddam. We are not stupid. You are from Essex. You don’t care about Haddam. You don’t care about the environment. If you cared about the environment you would applaud the swap as it adds 87 acres to an established nature preserve. The 17 acres being traded is surrounded by a commercial area and railroad tracks as such, in comparison, it has limited environmental potential.

Where have you been? ......under a rock ? You might want to check this out for information. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303657404576359291928044606.html

That article has some true comedic moments, I like this quote:

"We just want a fair shake," Riverhouse's Mr. Furrer said. "Our goal is to create a tourist destination that will bring people to the area, and bring jobs and tax revenue to the state at a time when we need it."

yeeenahaa, a fair shake??, so that's what they call screwing over state taxpayers these days??

go to the bank and get a loan, there's your fair shake

which leads into more hilarity--bring jobs and tax revenue ????

first off the jobs numbers touted by these guys are apparently figured after a bottle of scotch or something, they are figments of their imaginations

and perhaps Mr. Furrer could enlighten us as to how you bring in tax dollars when you are getting tax defferments from the town???, it kinda negates any gains don't you think?

Joe Anybody

grow some and post your real name

how original

its only just begun, wait till the Justice Dept gets through

did you use all of you brain for that response? you must be tired

you know who I am??? wow, what a stretch, seeing I am on of the few to have the balls to post my real name, so you can read

Essex?? polluting marinas?? do tell, I'm sure DEEP would just love to hear your info on that, perhaps Essex is as polluted as Daily claimed this land is, using her argument, then only Riverhouse can save or help Essex, to clean up the pollution.

Which also points out that Daily never explained what this horrible pollution is or how only Riverhouse can clean it up, perhaps they have found a way to make a house dressing or marinade out of it.

Joe anybody:
I'm going to assume that the repeated comment is some type of glitch in the system and delete them for you. The Patch system will think the repeated comments are spam after so many posts and will disable you as a user as we have had trouble with spammers in the past and I wouldn't want that to happen.
Thanks!

Wendy, My comments were repeated responses made to individual comments. Your altering of my comments along with your threats confirms my suspicions that your publication is not a free and open forum. It’s apparent that the hypocrites involved, which apparently includes your publication, have taken their “baseball” and gone home. You have no credibility.

Joe: If that were the case, I would have removed ALL of your comments. The copying and pasting of the same EXACT comment is considered spam. You have a voice, just use it appropriately. All I'm saying is to switch it up and change your wording or the computer system is going to flag the EXACT same comment used repeatedly as spam. In reality, I was doing you a favor so you wouldn't get suspended as a user and could continue to voice your opinions.

Joe has a glitch, "they" cannot intelligently respond with an articulated counter point to my points and observations, so I suppose this is their most intelligent response they could muster,over and over and over and over??

I mean hey Joe, if you think giving rich connected people public lands for their own personal commercial enterprises is a good thing, well, make your case, convince me.

This land was purchased with Federal and State funds, funds provided by TAXPAYERS, IT IS NOT A HADDAM ISSUE, HADDAM HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LAND ONCE IT WAS PURCHASED BY THE STATE and the State = the people, not some chair polisher at DEEP.

It is a Ct and National issue, it sets a very dangerous precedent, just as many other things have that allow rich people to do whatever they want all across this once great nation.

It is you, Daily, Goodspeed, and Riverhouse that has no credibility, no supporter of this scam has ever made an intelligent argument for it. Especially Daily, the claim of it being polluted so it would be better off in the living arms of Riverhouse is an insult to our intelligence, ALL OF TYLERVILLE IS POLLUTED, ITS IN THE GROUNDWATER, so what is Riverhouse going to do about it???? NOTHING, it is already being done and adressed by different State agencies.

Gene,
You make an interesting point. " IT IS NOT A HADDAM ISSUE, HADDAM HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LAND ONCE IT WAS PURCHASED BY THE STATE".

Why has the Citizens for Public Land Protection actively attacked local elected officials, "marched on the market", and endorsed LOCAL officials right here on this very site and furthermore endorsed many pro business and pro development people. Interesting!

Another interesting quote " ALL OF TYLERVILLE IS POLLUTED, ITS IN THE GROUNDWATER". Really?? I thought this land was beautiful, untouched virgin land with all kinds of native wildlife much like I've seen advertised on several articles on here. I've made the comment on here that this was an old overgrown gravel pit and is polluted but others associated with CFPLP have aggressively denied and argued that statement, yet there is credible and abdundant documentation supporting this.

This is not about public land, conservation, what's best for the environment. This is all about a handful of people who don't like things that are happening in our town and have appointed themselves to tell everyone else otherwise.

Not sure where you are coming from, probably an office inside Goodspeed or Riverhouse, anyway

Daily made the case that the land to be swapped was polluted, it is not, it is on top of a polluted aquifer that affects all of Tylerville, and she and they, and possibly you use it as an excuse to trade it, which is BS.

Show me the documentation proving that and only that specific piece of land is polluted.

The fact that this is unprecedented, where a govt entity purchases land with Conservation Funds, funds that are stipulated that they can only be used for purchasing land to be preserved FOREVER, and those funds are federal tax payer funds makes this not only a Precedent setting move but a very serious Federal offense by Daily, Malloy, DEEP, Esty, and anyone else involved in this scam.

CPLP has focused this on a local issue, which is why we parted ways, I do not agree with them 100% but I certainly do not agree with you at all.

Just because something is allowed to happen by public officials does not mean it is right or legal, just like Rowland and Silvestri and others who have been arrested for crimes against the people they too shall feel the hammer fall, eventually.

I have tried my best to get Federal and State involvement in a number of areas including many Conservative groups and the Justice Dept.

Sometimes the wheels of justice turn very slow because they need all of their ducks in a row before making their move and do not comment until it is time.

EPM43, if you would kindly show me where we have noted that the 17 acre land was "pristine" or "untouched virgin land"?

Maybe you are incorrectly remembering that the developers have continually stated their 87 acres of land to be "virgin and pristine while it was heavily logged and there are papers at the town hall that show this.

And CPPL has never denied the 17 acres being a retired gravel pit.

Thank you for allowing me to clarify for you.

I forgot to mention Perez, what was it ? a simple kitchem remodel took down the Mayor of Hartford?? and Rowland sold the state taxpayers out for nothing. I mean really when you look at what he got in return for millions or hundreds of millions it was on the cheap.

In reality a political official can accept nothing from anyone and neither can their relatives, boat trips, meals, opera tickets, use of a banquet facility, drinks, tickets to sporting events, etc etc, none of it is legal.

It is without a doubt that if the Justice Dept investigated every politician in Hartford they'd be pretty damn busy, we might have to build more Court Houses, corruption has become so common place in our govt it is sickening, from the cause of this depression to smaller issues it is all fueled by greed and it all sucks off the tax payers.

If you are not sure how all this works watch this:
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7387331n&tag=contentBody;storyMediaBox

Hartford or DC it's all the same, lobbyists and "public relations firms" make it all happen

Melissa,
I would urge you to read the website run by your group. On many occasions in the testimonial section of your groups website it notes native specifies of wildlife and a beautiful piece of property that should be that should be conserved. In my opinion the piece of property is a polluted gravel pit in the upper sections and the lower sections are nothing more than a previously developed portion of land which are largely parking lots. Keep in mind this same piece of property was once home to a cruiseline, resturant and other facilities for MANY years. Current businesses have and continue to operate there even though it was a state facility. Arguing the point that it should not be home to a commerial business when it has and continues to be is extremely difficult. Look at East Haddam (whom many of the CFPLP members) live in. I see nothing but commerical development when I look at East Haddam as I travel across the bridge. These same people don't throw stones at themselves yet they feel it's appropriate to come across the bridge and tell us how to do our business.

A logged piece of property does not mean that it is destroyed. If that was the case please explain why the DEEP does regular logging operations in the state forests both inside and outside of Haddam.

Melissa, The swap adds 87 acres to an established nature preserve. The 17 acres being traded is surrounded by a commercial area and railroad tracks as such, in comparison, it has limited environmental potential. You are in a self-righteous haze. These wealthy elitists / pretend environmentalists are making a fool out of you.

apparently Joe has a learning disability

Mellissa, don’t be sucked in by Gene’s hateful / pretend environmentalists ways. There’s still hope for you. Turn back while you still can.

hehehahaa

wow, Joe, thank you, I never thought of myself as a Wealthy Elitist.

I'm honored

Now if I only had the funds to make that a reality. Please everyone send me some money so I can fulfill Joe's dream of me being a Wealthy Elitist.

Melissa, if you want to actual get anything done you must separate yourself from people like Gene. Read Gene's responses and read your responses, you should see a big difference but unfortunately because you don't condemn his statements you look like you are on the same page. This is similar to why so many people are turned off by the stop the swap movement, every time someone tries to have a civil normal conversation someone like Gene starts accusing people of crimes, bribery, threatens to have people removed from office etc. I was appalled at what I heard at the ag center in Haddam, thought I was going to hear some discussion on the swap and heard mostly nasty hateful people just making horrific statements about people and accusations that they have no actual proof of just an ugly ugly scene.

Sad to say but when you respond and write along side Gene you are put in his category. Please stop attacking people, stop threatening politicians. Why make this so ugly and hateful. The state owns the property, the state wants to swap the 17 acres for the 87 acres. I get it you like the 17 better, you wish the 17 remained with the state, ok ok ok, we hear you but just as you stated above that is your opinion.

If someone else has the opinion that they want the 87 preserved instead of the 17 that is their opinion. It does not make them evil or criminals or horrible politicians so don't bring it there.

Also just look at the results, the pro swap people just ran over the anti swap people in this election. It wasn't even close. The Dems in Haddam had a very ineffective first selectman candidate that lost by more votes than anyone else on the ballot, I think around 600 vote difference. The rest of the Dems suffered, looks like some old guard Dems hung on but new names got beat up. I am confused by the anti swap's strategy of attacking Democrats especially on the zoning boards, what do you think the Republicans are going to do for development? Be careful. Just like last election when Stock got beat, some Republicans got put on BOE as a result and that has not been good.

and what has "opinion" have to do with anything??

really you people are some freaked up in the head, opinion is nothing when it comes to law, this is illegal, whether it ever comes to trial or not, taking land that is purchased with Conservation Funds and giving it to a developer is illegal, it is in the language of the Conservation funds that were used to purchase the land for the State of Connecticut, so it doesn't matter what anyone thinks or what their opinion is or how they feel the deed should be interpreted.

It's illegal based on that fact alone.

Trouble politicians want to show that they are doing something about the economy, so they are fooled into thinking this will improve it somehow or at least the people will think so, and if it doesn't they'll just come with some BS excuse just like when they promised us electric deregulation would save us money when all it did was make some people rich and helped kill CT's economy.

So excuse me when I see federal laws being broken and ignored if I think there may be corruption involved, because I am not seeing the logic of this at all.

No logic, no tangible argument for this swap other than they want it, no plans, no actual strategy, no truth, nothing in writing, a swap that states that CT wil trade all of the 17 acres for all or PART of the 87, BS about pollution, BS about job creation, BS about Goodspeeds involvement, DEEP side steps it, I mean geeez , there's a lot of BS going on here for something that is so "righteous".

And what do you people of Haddam say to the millions of Americans that could be affected by this land grab??? This precedent setting move, where other developers could take their state parks for private development without even having to pay fair market value!!!!!!!!!!!

ARE YOU THAT SHALLOW???????

It's over?? well then goodnight Irene

to Joe Anybody, You are boring repeating the same thing over and over. This makes many people think that perhaps you are a mental patient (or should be). Take a hint from Gene, he says the same thing over and over but uses different words. As a result, he is somewhat entertaining and although he is obviously obsessed, he won't be committed anytime soon.

Why do I see a comment on the home page on this article by Dental Assistant 15 but it doesn't show up on this chain? Being a long long long time conservationist, most likely longer than anyone writing here but maybe not, why do you want the 87 acres developed? What is it that you don't like about that property that you want those trees cut down and roads cut in? Have you analyzed this area of the river? We have a bridge accross, a concrete parking lot with jersey barriers and buildings on the Haddam side, just to the concrete parking lot's south are a row of houses right on the water, south of that is a Marina, on Haddam's side north of the bridge is another marina, forget the East Haddam side, we've got a restaurant right on the water, a concrete parking lot south of the restaurant, an airport, not too far north we have CY and you are worried about a few buildings that will be about a 1/4 mile away from the river? Please pick your battles, put your efforts on getting the CY property conserved. That property is extraordinarily valuable to conservation to connect already conserved land and U.S. Fish and Wildlife land, its 400 acres on the water not 17 off the water, it is beautiful land abutting the salmon river. Please put your efforts into something worth winning. Nothing built on this 17 acres could possibly be worse than what is already built directly on the water in the same area and much better than what would be put up on the 87 acres.

I totally agree Henry!

Yes, Melissa, I don't doubt your sincerity, but people like Gene and many against the Swap take it too far. This town has been made ugly by the likes of Bondi, Schwing, the Democratic Town Committee, all of whom assign the worst motives to those that disagree with them. We have to find a more civil way to discourse.

You keep missing the point.

It's not about Haddam or freekin East Haddam.

It is about breaking the law.

The funds used to purchase the land by the State were Conservation funds that have legal stipulations on them to PREVENT corruption and misuse of funds that are intended only for the purpose of purchasing land that is to be preserved forever.

It is legal and binding, if anyone like DEEP or the State of Ct breaks that they are breaking the law, Federal Law. I bought this information to a real estate attorney and they assured me this could not pass, BUT IT DID!!

Now whether anyone from any Justice Dept or the FBI etc does anything about is another matter, the Justice Dept was decimated by W and is still useless as far as I can see.

It also sets a legal precedent that other developers in Ct and elsewhere in the United States could follow and argue in Court that they too have the right to public lands.

It's not about you, quick turn around, see, the universe does not revolve around you or your little town.

But the actions you take, don't take or allow, could affect many others in the nation.

SO just how do YOU define "taking it too far"??

This has been knocked several times simply based on the facts I have stated, now that we seem to once again have a completely corrupt Hartford and corporate cronies installed everywhere the attitude that "anything that is good for business is good" once again prevails and once again completely bass ackwards.

That is why I say if it is such a just and great thing, and it will create hundreds if not thousands of jobs let them go to a bank and get a loan and buy it, put those funds back into the Conservation Fund that they were removed from.

Why does it have to be given to them?, and please, spare me the "they're going to trade 87 acres bit", because they're not, I seem to be the only left around with Yankee Blood.

The deed with the State states " the State of Ct will trade all of the 17 acres in exchange with all or part of the 87 owned by Riverhouse"

all or part?? why would it say that??

answer that one question, why would it say that??

for the same reason that the deed to the State for the 17 acres states that it "should" remain as open space and now they claim it is open to interpretation.

get it, eyes wide open now???

and who is Daily or anyone else to decide that a piece land that may be worth a few hundred thousand at best is equal to a parcel that we paid millions for and is now worth more???

slam dunk

you're just not intelligent enough to argue against me

people amaze me, they really do, like I said just follow the law

whats good for Haddam or bad for Haddam does not matter, whats legal matters first

and this is illegal, everyone gets in this attitude " I think, I feel" , soooo??? it doesn't matter as far as the decison goes

the Conservation groups are waiting to see if it will stop on its own so they can save money on a lawsuit, if it moves forward lawsuits will be filed

and that's the way it will be

did you know you have on hell of stutter or stammering problem???, I mean wow, you like repeat your entire statement : )

its not my cause, not afiliated with STS or any others at all

I don't like people using my tax dollars to increase their empires.

especially when they are generally republicans who cry about standing on your own two feet and free markets, while they get free passes on their taxes and free public land

Gene, do you have no idea how abrasive you appear to be?

The legalities of what you are stating are far more complex that you say they are. Slam dunk? Hardly... the intent of the original donation is much less decisive than you make it out to be and the precedent on this is not close to being established.

Again, you can make even environmentalists like me want to support the other side.

don't care

post your real name

it is a slam dunk legally

without your real name you have NO credibility, you could be anyone, stand by your opinion

oh and by the way

state these complexities

its cut and dry

Gene,
Believe it or not everything that happens in life is not an act of corruption or a conspiracy. As Ahhh has stated to the normal and logical person you are way over the top.

state the complexities

or *** off

The original owner of the land was seeking to sell it to commercial interests initially... he couldn't find a good buyer at a good price, so chose to use his political connections to sell it to the state at a price VERY favorable to him.

He didn't care if the land was conserved or not. The language around preserving the land was the standard language used by the state, not the seller's intent.

Gene:

I am with you on opposing the swap and I think the whole thing reeks to high heaven of kickback.

Nevertheless, the fact is the language in the deed about conservation is not a restriction on use of the land and no court would treat it as such. You may be onto something with the idea that if federal money was used for conservation the feds might stop the state, but I think it is very naive to hope they will do anything. The only real hope is for Haddam to take the land by eminent domain the minute the state conveys it. That could be done through a town meeting called by petition.

Ahhh think you're full of it, the owner wanted the land conserved ans said so on tv and in print.

This is a good lesson to all considering conserving their land, READ the documents carefully, make sure it says MUST, not should or could, politicians are trained to use those words as an escape, just as they did with electric de regulation, they never said it would save us money, they said it could, it should.

skeptic, I use Cause & Effect to determine what is what, in CT and DC, everything has a cause and effect, you have to go back and make a timeline.

Many people are only using past year history on this.

My memory is that the State bought the land to conserve it, now I'm talking about Eagle Landing, but they never put a sign up, then they bought this parcel and added it to Eagle Landing.

This land had been eyed by Goodspeed and Riverhouse before all of this and because the state did not give it to them and they couldn't afford it and East Haddam wouldn't give Goodspeed what it wanted they threatened to leave and were then offered 5 million from Middletown to build a theater, Daily stopped it.

Now it gets interesting, this parcel then gets removed from Eagle Landing and is placed as part of Clark Wildlife Management Area, so that it is not part of a state park.

Then for years they try to transfer it to Goodspeed and Riverhouse, and it gets blocked everytime because it is illegal and some in Hartford knew it and cared. corruption. --- continued

-- As this corrupt adiministration took hold Daily knew she had a chance to get it through, especially with a corporate crony running DEEP.

SO the tactics changed, they claimed that Goodspeed had nothing to do with it and sugar coated it with tales of thousands of jobs created and what a boom to local taxes ( not sure how you do that with tax deferrements???), and the stories of pollution which they never specified what pollutants or how Riverhouse is so adept at pollution remediation and a good many people bought into it.

But then again a good many people would vote for Perry, Palin, Bachman and eeww Newt, not because they are republican, because they don't do any homework or remember the past.

The bottom line is the funds used to purchase the land are Conservation Funds and have legal bindings on them, they cannot be used to purchase land that it is for anything else or is later to be sold, transfered, quit claimed etc etc, it is illegal, whoever in the State was part of this should be wary, they are putting themselves personally on the chopping block, that would involve the people who purchased the property, the people who moved it to Clark, Daily, and the people who are now trying to slide this through.

Allow me to educate you.

Reports of extramarital affairs have dogged him for years as a result of two messy divorces, but he has refused to discuss them publicly.

Gingrich, who frequently campaigned on family-values issues, divorced his second wife, Marianne, in 2000 after his attorneys acknowledged Gingrich's relationship with his current wife, Callista Bisek, a former congressional aide more than 20 years younger than he is.

His first marriage, to his former high-school geometry teacher, Jackie Battley, ended in divorce in 1981. Although Gingrich has said he doesn't remember it, Battley has said Gingrich discussed divorce terms with her while she was recuperating in the hospital from cancer surgery.

Gingrich married Marianne months after the divorce.

"There were times when I was praying and when I felt I was doing things that were wrong. But I was still doing them," he said in the interview.

Gingrich resigned from Congress after being reprimanded by the House ethics panel over charges that he used tax-exempt funding to advance his political goals.

He had a choice fight the charges and prove his innocence OR resign without prosecution, he resigned, after all the Holier than thou crapola.

Although Obama has failed to clean up the mess the Republicans developed from 2000-2008 there is no one currently running in the GOP field that is not a liar, wacko, or psychotic, which is pretty sad because I'm sure there must be some that are a little better.

I love the GOP--sarcasm,

when all else fails cry like Swaggert and talk about praying

read that again

holy boy married his high school geometry teacher, think there was any extra curricular homework after school??? these days she would be investigated for statuory rape

both parties are now owned by large corporations, whether you are on the far right or far left you need to start waking up

watch this, this is actual FAIR & BALANCED reporting, they nail Pelosi and Boehner

wakey wakey little fishies, watch this and learn

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7388130n&tag=segementExtraScroller;housing